Top Benefits of Plant Based Eating with Amy Jones
Can changing your diet cause you to reduce your cholesterol, lose weight, and get off your anxiety medication? Yep. It sure did for my guest today, Amy Jones
Transcript of the Episode
Andrea Heyman 00:00 Can changing your diet cause you to reduce your cholesterol levels lose weight, and get off your anxiety medication? Yep, It sure did for my guest today, Amy Jones. I'm Andrea Heyman with another episode of adventures and feeding my fam.
But before we get into the episode, I want to tell you about a new project I've launched, I'm super excited to introduce the 52 recipes challenge. The idea behind the challenge is to commit to making one new plant based recipe each week for a year. That's it. Now, it might sound like a lot. But my aim is for you to incorporate this into your weekly meal plans for families. You don't have to start at the very beginning of January, this can be started any time, the idea is just 52 weeks of plant based recipes. For me, I have the additional challenge for myself that the recipe has to be something that's new to me. So I am taking any kind of suggestions or recommendations because I'm definitely going to run out of ideas on my own. And I would love for you to share and we can help each other have better health, you can reduce our carbon footprint by doing this, absolutely save money, have some more variety in our diets. And also give our kids an opportunity to try new foods. So after you hear this episode with Amy, I'm sure you can be super super motivated to incorporate more plant based meals into your diet, you can sign up through the link which will be in the show notes. And I also suggest you join my facebook group and that Facebook group. The link will also be in my show notes, but it's called adventures and feeding my fam. And I have been making a recipe every week on Sunday, late afternoons to show you how many options there are and show you the plant based recipe that I am making for the week. So it's been a ton of fun, and I would love to have you join in. I've also done some cooking parties, and I'm planning some more. So it's been a blast. I want you to be a part of it. There's no fee to join. So I encourage you to register and join the Facebook group as well and just be part of the movement Adventures in Feeding My Fam is a weekly podcast discussing the challenges and fun around feeding your family healthy meals. I'm Andrea Heyman, and I've been a registered dietician for over 25 years. So I know the importance of good nutrition. But I'm also a mom of three so I understand the challenges in tumor that comes along with trying to make this happen. In this podcast, I'll share my tips, tricks and menus, but also share the stories and food prep failures that come along the way to interview guests. We'll discuss family food traditions, how to strengthen bonds around the family table, as well as their favorite family recipes. There isn't one right way to feed your family. But there are countless stories. You can take bits and pieces and learn from all of them.
I'm so happy to have Amy Jones today. She's been a physician's assistant for 15 years. And she also teaches physician's assistant students in dermatology and nutrition at various schools and undergraduate classes. She's certified in plant based nutrition, and she's a board certified in lifestyle medicine. Recently, actually no, I think it was a couple years ago, she started romaine healthy, LLC. It's a YouTube channel that shows how to make a variety of plant based recipes. She also is in charge of that elementary school garden club at her kids school. So she has an incredible passion, which you're going to hear about plant based nutrition and how to help women lose weight, control their blood sugar through sustainable lifestyle, manage modifications, and just help women feel their best and live their best lives possible. Without further ado, here's Amy. So welcome, Amy. I'm so glad you joined us for an episode of the podcast today.
Amy Jones 04:34 Oh, thanks, Andrea, I really want to thank you for having you here. And also just for starting the podcast, I think it's a great idea to help people with their meal planning and kind of fill the gaps where they're not getting that knowledge and you know, they want to be healthier, but they just don't have the tools to do it. So it's awesome. I'm excited to be here.
Andrea Heyman 04:52 Well, that's my aim to help all of the listeners and I'm sure you've got some good insight as well too.
Amy Jones 05:00 I hope so.
Andrea Heyman 05:01 So I like to start out typically by asking my guests about the house that you were raised in as it relates to food, and meals and meal prep in your house when you were growing up, who was responsible for preparing the meals? And did you have regular family meals?
Amy Jones 05:21 I would say yes. So I grew up kind of in rural Pennsylvania had mom, dad and my younger brother. And I remember family meals, for sure, kind of sitting around the table. And my mom did pretty much all of the cooking I don't I think other than grilling, that's about all my dad would do. So that was pretty normal. And most nights, I think we would really sit around the table, I remember drinking a glass of milk every night, or chocolate milk, and nothing super fancy. But my mom was always a really good cook. And I think she got better as she got older, too. So that was that was great. I think that taught me early on and kind of instilled in me like the importance of family meals so that when you're little you don't realize it at the time and say this is really valuable when you're eight years old. But now that I'm doing it with my family, I can I can totally see how it, it makes a difference in our lives for sure.
Andrea Heyman 06:13 How do you think it makes a difference in your life?
Amy Jones 06:15 I think it just kind of connects us with the kids. I think we're running around all day, you know, every day, I mean, maybe not so much on the go now, but even still everybody's kind of doing their own thing. So when we come together, everybody knows just a routine that we can sit down, and we're going to have a conversation and who knows what is going to come out of their mouths. But that's when like, I feel like all the good stuff comes out, you know, when they start opening up and talking about things and you know, instead of harping on how was your day would you do and what they did wrong, just kind of focusing on a lot of the positive things. And it's it's pretty funny, I think my son has asked the most interesting questions. And he's 12 my daughter's nine. But growing up, you know, he's, as soon as he went on that middle school bus had a bunch of questions for us. And Where do babies come from? And do you believe in God? And what would you do if you only had two days to live and we just take kind of really taking you off guard dinner table with my daughters, my nine year old via, it's great. So it's actually really fun to kind of look forward to each night doing that.
Andrea Heyman 07:23 I have found that sometimes I will discover things in that evening conversation that I'm just shocked that I hadn't heard about it before that. And even things that will come up a day or two later that I just cannot believe. Nobody told me before that.
Amy Jones 07:44 It is amazing. Especially right after school, they don't want to talk and it's more dinnertime or when you're putting them to bed and you're really tired. I find that my my son will say Hey, Mom, can we talk about this and just, you have to stay and listen, because all you want to do is go to bed, but they will come to you. And as long as you stay open to it.
Andrea Heyman 08:02 It sounds like you do have regular meals in the evening then with your family now. Amy Jones 08:08 Yep. Oh, definitely. Yeah, I think almost every night now before I think when the sports were on, it was a little bit less. But for the most part, we would all try to eat together or at arrange it to eat together. For sure.
Andrea Heyman 08:20 And who's responsible for the meal prep and planning now,
Amy Jones 08:24 oh, that would be 100%. me I'll say maybe 99 to give my husband a little bit of credit. He does the grilling. And so if i prep something for the grill, then I can at least have a little bit of time not to cook but then other than that, it's more me and I do all the grocery shopping and things like that, he probably would help a little bit more, I might have a little bit of control issues about just what I want to eat and how I want to cook. So it's really, you know, I think I think he would be willing to help out if he had to. Andrea Heyman 08:54 And it sounds like you have a very specific idea of the foods you like to serve to.
Amy Jones 08:59 So we have actually we are on a whole food plant based diet so I don't know if I call it a diet but more of a lifestyle so we eat so for the last four years we eat meals that are plant based so there's no meat or dairy or in minimal processed foods. So we eat a lot of the and I think the biggest myth around that is that we eat weird stuff that is like what do you eat if you're just eating plants but we really eat not only family friendly but kid friendly meals like tacos and burgers and sloppy joes and just kind of substitute out whatever the meat was with the plant based ingredients. So instead of regular hamburgers have black bean burgers or we have something there's something called jackfruit which you can make and that is very similar to kind of like a shredded chicken or shredded pork and you put it with barbecue sauce on a roll. And that these are really Fast, Easy, tasty meals that we have. So the kids when they transition to it, they really didn't notice too too much. A big difference because I would feel Serve them familiar foods, but just kind of replace the ingredients. So they might think it tastes a little different. But over time, I still feel like they missed out or feeling deprived of their favorite kind of things to eat. Andrea Heyman 10:12 I have so many follow up questions from what you just said. But the first is really, why did you decide like what was your evolution to transition your family to plant based eating? Amy Jones 10:24 What happened quite suddenly? Well, maybe not. Because I think I've always tried to eat really healthy as healthy as I knew how or you know, what people were telling me was healthy. Until about four years ago, I watched two documentaries, kind of back to back called Forks Over Knives and what the health and if your audience didn't see that, if your listeners didn't see it, they're about food and lifestyle, but mostly food and what it can do to either power you to heal you or help you, or to actually hurt you and cause disease. And then I from this learning that 86% of chronic diseases are caused by your diet alone. So that is extremely powerful. I'm a physician assistant, I've been working in clinical medicine for 15 years, and we have never learned anything, I'm not gonna say anything about nutrition, that's not fair, we learned maybe vitamin C deficiency causes scurvy, or something like that. But nothing like the power of nutrition, like telling people what they should eat and focusing on vegetables is more than your mind is telling you to eat your broccoli, like it is, makes a substantial difference in people's health. So they kind of linked all that together and connected the dots, you know, there's, it's not just genetics, that you have diabetes and heart disease, it's the food, it's the food, it's the food. So on the show of showing people that have transformed their health, just through changing their diet and doing it in a way that doesn't really cause them, deprivation, or they're not having to eat last or eat weird things or give up necessarily all their favorite foods. But just saying that even the foods you think that are healthy, like skinless chicken breast that I was eating, or Greek yogurt, or you know, eggs, for instance, like have so much cholesterol, but you are fed all this information that they're so good for you. But they're actually not good for you. And, and you can not only survive on a plant based diet by eating all vegetables, but that you are actually better off doing that you're getting more vitamins and nutrients that you need to so learning that I was just I was just I think I just so amazed by it and so interested in so I think it not only transformed my health, but even the way that I treat patients and I had a look, you know, into it even more, I wanted to make sure you know, you can watch any documentary and you'd like is that real, like anybody can make a documentary. And there's some not so good ones out there. But when I really dove into the nutritional science of it and looked at all the studies, it was all there, plus more. It's amazing how people don't know about it with all the information there. And I think that's because of media marketing. And it's not taught in schools. And there's all these layers, you can talk about a whole other podcast if you want to. But I really had to at least try it for myself. So I asked my husband if you do a 30 day challenge with me because he hadn't seen any of these movies. And he wasn't on the same journey that I was so to completely say, hey, and we're going to give up meat and dairy forever. I knew it was not going to go over well. So we found this 30 Day Challenge. And we gave it a try. And really it was it was awesome. It took a couple weeks to kind of learn how to cook a little bit differently and just change ingredients. And like I said, I tried to keep it really familiar stuff like sweet potato, black bean tacos, and like kids, no tacos are and amazingly they eat anything that's in a taco shell. So that's really good tip. If you get anything out of this. Anything, it's always anything to taco or a bun. I feel like, man, it just goes over really well. You know, and the kids like kind of grumbled a little bit. They didn't have their milk for a while and my husband was on it and then went off of it because he's like, I miss meat. But then he realized how bad he felt when he went back to it. So slowly came back. And now we're just all fully been on it for about like two or three years. And feeling great. You know, just it's really a game changer for your health and it makes you feel good that you're helping like your health and the environment and planet and animals and the whole thing so I don't even remember the original question. Oh, that. That's okay.
Andrea Heyman 14:18 I have so many I can tell you're really passionate about this. You have you've thought about it, you've researched it and you have a lot to say thank you guys have any health transformations with this.
Amy Jones 14:32 So I think for me it was interesting i didn't i wasn't overweight. You see people online that from this diet are losing an amazing amount of weight and like completely transforming their health getting off all their medicines. I was relatively healthy. And at least I thought I was you know I went on this diet and I was getting kind of tired in the afternoon or have a little joint pain here and there after my second pregnancy and I'm you know I was on anxiety medicines but relatively like I feel Good, I was running triathlons, but my cholesterol was high. So it was probably up to like 210 getting tired in the afternoon. I'm like, What the heck, you know, exercising all the time, I love to exercise. So you think, Oh, I can exercise, I can eat anything I want. And that is like one thing that I've learned is not true. And I think as you get older, you feel that till you realize that's not true, but my cholesterol went down about 4050 points. And I mean, I didn't change my exercise, I was probably exercising. Last one I did that I wasn't doing triathlons. When I did that I ended up going off my anxiety medicines, after five months, I didn't lose any weight, because I just love to eat. So I eat a lot and I exercise so I maintain a pretty healthy weight. And my energy increased, I can tell you that I can run, I'm not running faster, but I can run longer, and I recover so much quicker. So you can even I even have the energy to do to workout some days, like it's just, it's unbelievable. My husband, he lost weight. So he wasn't super overweight, but he lost a good 15-20 pounds that put them in that normal BMI range, he was probably on the high end of it. And he's he said the other day is like I haven't weighed this, this lesser this amount since I was in my 20s. Like, it wasn't like he ate that. But he ate the wrong kind of foods. And I think that high fat concentration like he was over always a little bit overweight, he wasn't exercising at all when he did this diet. So I don't think he checked his cholesterol, but he had a lot of energy too. And he was not a gym rat. So he's doesn't like, willingly go to the gym, he'll play basketball or soccer with the kids. But he recently this past year started going to the gym, I think he's feeling really good, it almost triggered him to change other aspects of his lifestyle, too. So even if you start with one aspect of lifestyle, like just exercising, it sort of triggers this reaction where now you want to eat better, you're eating better, now you want to exercise or you sleep better, and it all kind of comes together.
Andrea Heyman 16:55 That's really, it's really an incredible story. And something that I was struck by when you were talking was that you went off here anxiety medications, which most people would not think that there would be an association. But tell me about that a little more.
Amy Jones 17:12 I don't think I really knew about this connection at the time I went off of them, I just started feeling better, maybe the more energy or something. And I just thought, Well, let me just And it worked. I think I just felt happy. Maybe I found this passion to who knows what accommodation was or what I thought it was. But more recently, this past year, I've been Of course reading even more information and, and research on it. And there's the gut microbiome, that could actually explain a little bit of it. So there's even science behind this is that all these plants and the fiber in the plants kind of feed your good bacteria in your gut and can create more serotonin or these neurotransmitters that are like the happy chemicals for your brain and actually change your mood. So there's more research on plant based diets for depression kind of coming out. So even treating these types of psychiatric illnesses with plants and food is is incredible. Like that is not a link that you would think would be connected. But there certainly one there at least that's one aspect of it. There might be other ones too. But that's the interesting part of it. Andrea Heyman 18:21 Yeah, in my practice, for the last three or four years, I have been saying that that booming area of research will explode and expand so much of what we know about so many different areas of medicine and health. And I'm really just fascinated by all the potential that's there. Right? Amy Jones 18:46 Yeah, I think people when they realize like, all the, for me, the sciences motivating to like you can explain why that happens. And then I'm motivated to try it. Whereas if you like just try this weird, wonky thing, and maybe it'll work but if they can, if they have science with it, I I feel more motivated to do it. I'm like, now I can change my gut microbiome and my serotonin. I'm like, Oh, I gotta try that. Yeah, I don't know why it's just kind of nerdy. But that's sort of what motivated me to change this. And even with them, I just did some recent, like, Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction stuff. So more like lifestyle things and what motivated me to try it. I always thought, Oh, yeah, it's probably a good idea to do mindfulness meditation. But there was all these studies on it that showed like how much it reduced stress and they can prove it. And that to me was like, oh, then I mean, now I'm really in.
Andrea Heyman 19:37 So has this new knowledge and experience with eating affected your clinical practice and your clinical recommendations at all.
Amy Jones 19:49 So absolutely. So after this, and then after kind of trying it myself, I discovered american college of lifestyle medicine and there is a physicians committee. for Responsible Medicine, so these are two big groups and they're physicians, doctors registered dieticians that are, you know, certified in acplm is lifestyle medicine. So you can get board certified in this. And they are really into helping doctors in their practices, especially kind of treat patients with lifestyle medicine as the first line treatment. So you always, you know, doctors will say, yeah, I think you got to lose weight. And I think you got to eat healthier, and they just like, send you on your way with your prescription, but you come back, and obviously, nothing has changed. And this really kind of hones in on how do we help them do that. And then I think doctors are an integral part of like, at least telling patients that information, you know, maybe they their plant based diet is a huge thing for both of these. It's, it's where all the sciences. And of course, they only take this the evidence base stuff to tell their patients. So again, more science for motivation, but they are advocating for a plant based diet. And they're telling doctors, if you tell patients like if they're primarily plant based, they don't even have to go all the way even the smallest changes like oatmeal for breakfast, literally write a prescription for oatmeal for breakfast to your patients, we're going to teach you how to do that, how to talk to them, how to coach them, so that they come back and they can cut you can kind of monitor their changes, how to motivate them, things like that, that made me really interested in like how to help people a whole new way. So instead of saying, okay, here's your, you know, if you treat cholesterol, here's your crust, or and lose weight. It's like, Okay, I'm gonna give you this crust or but it's temporary, I want you to try to change this, you know, this one small thing in your diet, hoping to get off of it. Whereas doctors are like, what medicine can we add on now? Now, what can we layer on? And never is the mindset of getting people off of their medication? So that never occurred to me either that people have diabetes, and we can get them off their medications? Like, what is that? But it's so true. Again, 86% of of chronic disease is caused by died. So why can't it fix it? And it certainly has proven itself, it's just that patients don't know. And even if doctors don't think that they would change, like, I think there's a big misconception, they're not going to listen anyway, they're going to stick in their ways. I think they should at least be able to have the information there. So they can kind of decide from themselves because I know for sure, I didn't think patients would listen to me, but a lot of them when I tell them are so curious. And and if you're saying it in a white coat that holds like a lot of power behind it. They are they're feeling like they're getting the truth. And sadly now I think doctors and PhDs and nurse practitioners only really know as much as the regular general population that they see milk does the body good and don't eat, don't eat junk food, obviously, that's a good one. But you know, they're not getting the real true science and the evidence based stuff around it. So when I treat patients now, instead of saying, Here's your cream for acne, see you later, I would say hey, you know, this is an inflammatory condition. They're, you know, a big part of this is lifestyle and an anti inflammatory diet, which includes a lot of. So here is, you know, here's some of the science that goes with it. And here's some of the things you can do if you're interested. And maybe they say, I don't care, give me my prescription, you can but at least they have that you've planted the seed, I think. So if they come across it again, they may be into it. And there's some patients that are just dying for this information and really comment in at the dermatologist and that's what can I eat that cures my acne, and especially women that have adult acne are willing to do anything, they've tried everything, they've tried antibiotics, maybe they've been on Accutane, they've tried six different diets that didn't work and they just, you know, want to do anything. I had a woman that was a patient that came in and I was telling her about this, she's goes great, I'm gonna I said, dairy plays a huge role in this. I tell people, it's not necessarily going to be the cure all for it. And maybe you won't get very clear, but it should help substantially. We can try it. There's no harm to try it. So two weeks, I think after I talked to her, she said, she called me and said, holy cow, I'm not getting any more breakouts. I've stopped dairy. It got so much better. Every time you eat a piece of cheese, I feel like I break out again. And she said my irritable bowel syndrome is gone. And I said you've irritable bowel syndrome. Like I guess in Durham, we don't focus too much on everything, which is probably another problem. But it was amazing that this one diets not only good for acne, but good for everything else. So even if you have 15 minute appointments with people, you can still give them enough information to get them started, you know and ask them questions.
Andrea Heyman 24:36 That's fantastic. I know that I have a lot of moms and families that are listening here and I'm sure probably a lot of them are wondering, okay, this is great. But how do I begin to transition for my family or how do I make this work for my family, especially if they have pickier kids? Do you have any insight or suggestions about that?
Amy Jones 25:03 Definitely the tacos again via and making things look familiar, like that is good. If they don't know how to cook, you know, there's, there's definitely a lot of stuff online for that. And I also have the YouTube channel remain healthy. So it teaches you how to make simple a little plug here. plant based meals like familiar things and very family friendly even include my kids in them, and just swapping out ingredients. Really that's all that is. But if there Yeah, I think that's it, you know, there's tofu nuggets, it's just making them taste good. I think when you first start things just tastes terrible. It's kind of learning anything, you're just terrible at it. So don't get discouraged with that. And yeah, like you said, I think it's just learning to cook and then just going slowly to depends on your family and their personalities. Like I did it there. I was so passionate about it as like, there's no way my intent is to go all in. And even if it wasn't perfection, it would be my tent is trying not to eat that Dairy and Meat every day and trying to substitute but being giving yourself grace when you do and you're like, Oh, no, this pasta had milk in it, not a big deal, you'd have to slowly learn. So I think that's it, not to beat yourself up when you kind of stumble along the way for sure. We're just to add like a plant based meal every week, you know, start there and had my neighbor friend did that. And that worked really well for her. And that kind of introduced her family to it without like having them lash out at her. And then slowly going, oh, let's do it. Let's do two meals a week. Let's do three, you know, and then seeing, seeing if they like it also building up slowly. Yeah, exactly.
Andrea Heyman 26:40 Tell us more about romaine healthy.
Amy Jones 26:43 So I started this. So this was probably another one of my outlets like I just keep wanting to do more to share this information. And I before that started a Facebook page with my neighbor who was loved to cook this way too. And we just would share recipes with people. And my friend who's a pharmaceutical rep came into the office one day and she's like, I saw your your recipe for hummus looks great in but I don't know how to cook that. Like how do you make? And I'm like, nobody knows how to cook. How do you not know how to make hummus. You put like chickpeas in before ingredients in a blender. And she goes I don't know. And I'm like, What? I said that might be the problem. I said that there's this huge gap like you're Filling in the gap for people want to eat healthier, but how the heck do you do it? It's like they don't know how to cook. So I think that starts she goes and she actually said to me, she gave me the idea. So I'll give her credit is why don't you do a YouTube video and show how to make it and I was like holy crud, I cannot go on camera. I'm not gonna be able to like just kind of out of your comfort zone yet. They're totally nervous from the get go. But I was like, You know what, I'll give it a try. I have nothing to lose. And just be fun. So, I mean, I think pesto was my first video with my daughter who I think videotaped it. And it was probably terrible lighting everything. And they're still not the best editing. But I did it. It was really fun. And I meant to post it on my Facebook recipe page. So what 40 people would see it I was like this will be fine kind of beta, test it and see what happens. And about three hours later, I got a notification I was at work after I posted it. Love your video that was awesome. So cute. And it was from a person that wasn't in my group. I posted it on my main page by accident like so everyone saw it. And I thought I started sweating and my heart beating fast like everyone saw my video like I did not mean for that to happen. But it ended up being great because it made a lot of people liked it and sort of inspired me to keep going to do it. And I just want to get out there like that you can make food still tastes good and be really, really healthy at the same time. And that everything that's your favorite food, like Bert, I make so many different kinds of burgers or, you know, different soups are things that you anything you can think of like lasagna, you can make a plant based and it doesn't have to be hard, you don't have to be in the kitchen. And I feel like with cooking this way that I I spend less time in the kitchen. And I mean, you chop a little bit of the vegetables, it's probably the most time consuming, but we're going to eat vegetables regardless. So now I don't just I don't have to make the meat portion. So it's really easy, and it's not expensive. And I just want people to just get them rid of the misconceptions if that's what it is and kind of help them out with that. And I throw in some nutrition facts to sort of inspire them. Like if you're eating this black bean burger, you're getting all this protein and nutrition and vitamins and it's helps with diabetes. And then if you think about the other hamburger you're eating, you're getting nothing, if not more heart disease. So why wouldn't you just pick this one, they both taste really good. So I try to kind of incorporate everything in there.
Andrea Heyman 29:48 You're definitely on a mission to educate and motivate and make it easy for people
Amy Jones 29:55 where listeners find you. So right now you can See me on the YouTube channel romaine healthy and on I'm on I just got on Instagram at remain healthy LLC, I started my own company in September, and we incorporated remain healthy. And I'm also helping women. Now I'm kind of niching down a little bit helping women lose weight and sustain it and women that are just fighting those cravings, they want to get rid of the scale, they want to really control their blood sugar. So if they're really high at risk for diabetes or have diabetes, and they need a support group with like a support group and some guidance, I have a free Facebook page. It's called ditch the scale and cravings for life, women's groups. So if you just throw that into the Facebook search, come on over there, and you'll get some good advice, support, you can share your struggles, it's a good place to get information. And that's really my main focus right now is to do that and kind of try to grow remain healthy little bit and see how many more people I can reach and hopefully help sort of transform their lives.
Andrea Heyman 31:00 Thank you, Amy. It's been such a pleasure to have you on the show. And I can't wait to follow you and see what else you're sharing in the world. Oh, thanks.
Amy Jones 31:11 Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.
Andrea Heyman 31:16 Wasn't Amy so passionate about the topic of plant based eating, she really is such a champion for the movement. I hope this was interesting and helpful for you. If you enjoyed the show, please rate and review, as well as share it with a friend. And if you do share, please tag me as well. I'd love to see what you think and be a part of that as well. Again, the show notes. We'll have all the links that I mentioned here in the episode. Until next time, take care